Monday, December 21, 2009

[Druid] I'm Not Specced for Typhoon, Quit Asking

Thank you, Tankspot, for making so many people suddenly think that all moonkin are packing this blue knockback spell and they've just been hiding it all this time. That's what happens when an optional raiding talent gets highlighted in everyone's favorite strat video series.

The fight in question is Deathbringer Saurfang. Two blood beasts periodically spawn and have to be dps-ed down as fast as possible while not being allowed to hit anyone, because if they hit someone they make Saurfang's blood counter go up, and when his blood counter hits 100 bad things happen.

There are a number of ways to keep the blood beasts away from people. Ranged dps can ping-pong threat between them. The beasts can be stunned or slowed by Frost Traps or Earthbind.

One of the methods specifically highlighted by Tankspot was Typhoon. Why Typhoon? It's a ranged spell that has a knockback effect, so the moonkin can use it to knock a blood beast away from its chosen target before it reaches it. It has a 20 second cooldown, which should be good enough for it to be used once a spawn.

Would I use it if I had it? Sure.

Would I spec specifically for this fight to get it? No.

Maybe if this was Arthas and we knew we'd have to be top of our game to beat him, I would. I did respec for our Twilight Zone attempts after all, back when that was the pinnacle of 25-man raiding. But Deathbringer Saurfang?

Now, no one's been asking me to spec for it. But last week we got to Saurfang for the first time and went over the strat and someone said, "Yeah, moonkin can use that blue knockback thingy of theirs." I explained that we have to spec into it and it's not really considered a raiding talent. He shouldn't expect a raiding moonkin to have it.

It was our first time meeting Saurfang. Explanation given. All good.

Second time meeting Saurfang. Different person. "Moonkin can use Typhoon to knock back the blood beasts."

Oh no you didn't. I now realize that I'm in all likelihood never going to get away from this. Even when pugs begin to regularly farm Saurfang there is always going to be that one guy who's thinking "That moonkin is being such a lazy ass and not using Typhoon!"

A couple nights ago a moonkin friend joined our guild run since the holidays had depleted us of a dps and he was also baffled by the Typhoon request, because we as raiding moonkin just don't spec for it. We could make room for it, sure. Our talent trees aren't that tight. But most don't bother.

So why don't raiding moonkin take it?

Typhoon is very situational in raids. It doesn't have a place in our rotations which rely on the core four spells of Insect Swarm, Moonfire, Wrath, and Starfire. It doesn't do enough single-target damage to be used every cooldown like our Force of Nature or Starfall spells. And while an AoE of a sort, it has a knockback effect which generally annoys tanks when used on trash and doesn't work on bosses. While it can be glyphed to remove the knockback, that defeats the purpose of why you would want it on Saurfang.

There are occasions where Typhoon can be useful; zombie chow on Gluth, blood beasts on Saurfang. When you don't want adds going someplace it's not bad to use it if you have it. But the problem is that it's situational. The vast majority of boss fights it's not necessary, so the moonkin interested in maximizing his or her boss dps generally will not take Typhoon when it is possible to take something else.

Some moonkin will take Typhoon for PvP, or for flavor because they feel they have a talent point to spare, but because it's not considered a core raiding talent, it shouldn't be assumed that all moonkin have it, which is why the Tankspot video is potentially irritating. Because it's Tankspot, it's held up as the default go-to strat, and it makes it look like moonkin should have Typhoon because after all Tankspot says they should use it.

So this is what I do to control adds on Deathbringer Saurfang.

Two beasts spawn. All ranged focus fire the add on the right. I Wrath the one on the left to get its attention and pull it away from the tanks, melee, and anyone else. Then I root it at the bottom of the steps.

Add is contained (and for far longer than a Typhoon would keep it at bay) and I pew-pew the one the right until it dies. Then everyone focus fires the add on the left and it dies. Repeat.

Who needs Typhoon.


Klepsacovic said...

You're doing it wrong. The proper method isn't to find your own strat that works. The proper method is to point at the elemental shamans "they have thunderstorm, make them do it!" Always make it the problem of someone else, even if it isn't actually a problem.

Villainus said...

If you don't have a point to spare for Typhoon, you're wasting talent points somewhere. For high-end moonkins, it's a significant portion of our encounter damage, in the range of 2-3% on any fight containing 2 or more targets (which is every fight in ICC and ToC currently).
Used not on cooldown, but selectively and directionally it can offer a nice increase. Add it to your DoT refreshing rotation during movement for another non-wasted GCD - or if you can't clip your dots during that movement phase.
Most serious moonkins carry around stacks of situational glyphs to use depending on each encounter. This way you can utilize typhoon for pushback or not, apply your IS miss debuff or not, etc.
PS- 10man ICC has 2 beasts and really doesn't require any knockback at all. They are easily killed before reaching any ranged. It's 25man where Typhoon has been the talent of choice for raid leaders to handle the beasts.

Hana said...

@Klep - We don't have an ele shaman. I've tried getting one in guild, but the resto shaman prefer enhance as his off-spec. :)

@Villainus - I've admittedly been out of theorycrafting for a bit, but I still think its use it pretty selective for what you get out of it. I've heard the arguments about using it on the move before, and I can see your point if the positioning is right and there are multiple targets it could be useful, but it still strikes me as a "sometimes" talent rather than a must have.

To your PS, I raid 10s, not 25s, not anymore, and I have been asked about Typhoon twice in those 10s (and just last night it was brought up again as a joke). If it turns out it's truly needed for 25s and I was still running them I would consider respecing, but I have no firsthand experience with that nor do I plan to go back.

Last I checked, none of the raiding moonkin I knew regularly kept Typhoon in their spec, and a quick check of TalentChic shows that the most popular spec with Typhoon comes in at #5 of all balance specs, so in any case it still seems to be a talent most moonkin do not take.

Heywood Djiblomi said...

It is most certainly NOT needed in ICC25.

Unknown said...

Of course, knockback effects like Typhoon can actually knock multiple blood beasts off of the platform - killing them instantly. Why wouldnt you want to use it? Park the boss near the edge - 5 beasts spawn. Blammo, typhoon knocks 4-5 off the platform at once. At most one beast is left to kite.